What Now?

What is next after the Supreme Court's ruling in Dobbs? I have been trying to come up with a concise way of thinking about that for the last month or so. Recently on a podcast I heard Henry Olsen, a Washington Post opinion columnist and polling expert, give the following post-Dobbs action plan which I think best expresses my thoughts:

“Overturning Roe, in hindsight, will be seen as the easy part. And I know that sounds like an absurd thing to say, since it took us almost 50 years to overturn Roe. But the fact is that the majority of American public opinion says that life within the womb in the first trimester (when the vast majority of abortions occur) does not deserve legal protection. They do not see the unborn child at that stage as sufficiently human to demand protection of the law. That opinion can change, it was different 60 years or 70 years ago, but that’s the battle that pro-lifer’s need to fight.

Jeremy Gorr in conversation with some students at UCLA in May, 2022.

“We can eliminate abortion extensively throughout the nation only when we change public opinion in that way. That’s the real battle, changing public opinion about the legal status and the human status of the unborn child in the first trimester. When we win that battle, we will win nationwide. Until we win that battle, it will always be a case of carving out enclaves and doing what we can.”

(“Life After Dobbs,” Episode 9, 33:58)

We convinced five judges, now we must convince 300 million Americans.

How Christian Kids Become Pro-Choice

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This Free Speech Board comment, seen at a JFA university outreach event, represents an all-too common position I hear from Christian students.

Every time I do outreach with JFA I have a conversation that reminds me exactly why the work we do is so important, why I left my previous career to do this work. At the University of Texas at Dallas (UT Dallas) that conversation was with a young woman named “Miriam.”

At outreach we meet a lot of pro-choice people who are atheists or agnostics, but we also meet a lot of pro-choice people who profess to be Christians. How does somebody who has been raised in the church her whole life become pro-choice?

Miriam is a perfect example of this phenomenon. I will quote her initial response to me at length. It is a fascinating look into how people who profess to be committed Christians (in this case a “proud Catholic”) justify their support for legal abortion:

I’ve been pro-life most of my life. But I do think it should still be legal, though. I’m a proud Catholic. And as a Catholic, most of us are pro-life.

I don’t know. God gave us free will. And he told us to make our own choices and choose what we believe is right, and in the end we will get our reward. Everything will be justified in the end.

I don’t believe that I should put my religious beliefs on the entire United States. If somebody who’s not Catholic wants to get an abortion, I’m not going to judge them. If somebody who is Catholic wants to get an abortion, I’m not going to judge them. It’s not my job.

I understand it’s sad. I don’t want babies to die. I do personally believe it is murder. Especially after a few months. I think maybe a time limit would be nice. Especially after a good amount of months, you shouldn’t kill that kid. I think it’s just not our decision to make for everyone.

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Our March outreach at UT Dallas where I met Miriam

I was very saddened by her response. She knew that abortion was “killing a kid” and didn’t want babies to die, yet she believed in keeping it legal to do just that.

Miriam considered herself pro-life because she personally was against abortion. Yet her position is almost identical to any pro-choice student that I meet who thinks that abortion should be legal for all reasons in the first two trimesters. This seemed to be a comfortable position for her. On the one hand, she could call herself pro-life and think she was in line with her church. On the other, most of her friends are pro-choice, and she could tell them she agrees with them about abortion.

She mentioned that her parents were pro-life without exceptions. I wanted to understand more about why she changed the position with which she had been raised, so I asked her about it. She responded:

I had my own mind after a while. I saw what my parents believed, and for a while I believed that. I see in some cases my parents were right. But eventually at some point in my life I [saw] some cases where abortion is justified. It is sad, but it would be worse for the kid if it was born. It’s hard to balance whose life weighs more, the mother or the child. It’s a judgement call, and it’s not my decision.

There it was again, the phrase “not my decision,” which echoed her previous comments about “make our own choices,” and, “I don’t believe that I should put my religious views on the entire United States.” She had uncritically accepted our culture’s message: choice trumps a child’s right to life.

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Equipping Christian students, like those in the seminar shown above, is one of our main priorities at JFA.

This conversation was evidence to me of the vital role our churches and families play in developing the pro-life advocates of the next generation, and of the fact that they are often under-equipped for the task. That’s why Justice For All’s training is so important. If she had heard strong justifications for the pro-life view, she would have been much more likely to reject the views that her culture and her peers were pushing on her. If her parents knew how to have difficult conversations with her about this topic, she would probably still oppose abortion today. But those conversations are hard, especially when dealing with issues such as abortion in the case of rape, and many, if not most, parents are not equipped to have those types of conversations confidently. Teaching those skills is exactly what Justice For All is about.

“If her parents knew how to have difficult conversations with her about this topic, she would probably still oppose abortion today. But those conversations are hard...and many, if not most, parents are not equipped to have those types of conversations confidently. ”

During our conversation, I was stunned by the number of pro-choice talking points she had absorbed and regurgitated to me. Where did Miriam’s justifications for abortion come from?

I went to Catholic schools my whole life, and most of my friends there were pro-choice, which is surprising because you’d think in Catholic school it would be pro-life, but that’s not the case where I grew up. Pro-choice makes more sense for the youth than for those who are older. I guess wisdom comes with age and stuff. Maybe it’s our youth mentality about how we think we know more than those who are older.

I was very surprised that she still considered herself pro-life, even though almost everything she was saying was no different than what I would usually hear from atheistic pro-choice students. I asked her to try to make sense of that for me.

There is a gray area between the two. You can be pro-life with a little pro-choice in you. Pro-choice has their moments where they make sense to me. I don’t think I’ll ever go over totally to the pro-choice side because I believe in the right to life, and I believe everything the Catholic Church says on the subject.

I support pro-life one billion percent, and kind of like one percent I see some pro-choice arguments that have points where they make sense.

Again, I was a bit shocked to hear that someone who spouted to me dozens of pro-choice arguments also said she is “one billion percent” pro-life. How is that possible? Had she learned why her church believes abortion is wrong? Had her parents taught her how to respond to the reasons her friends were pro-choice? Almost everything she had heard on the subject seemed to have come from our pro-choice culture or her pro-choice friends.

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JFA Outreach at the University of Texas at San Antonio (UTSA) in February 2020

After listening to her share her view, I presented a case for the equality of the unborn. I then asked, “Since the unborn are also human, shouldn’t they deserve an equal right to life to you and me?” She avoided the question, and she jumped once again into a common pro-choice talking point. This pattern continued throughout our conversation. It seemed clear to me that she had never considered the points I was making, and she had no responses other than repeating what she had heard from her friends.

This was discouraging, but I am hopeful that I “put a pebble in her shoe,” as Greg Koukl of Stand to Reason says. People often don’t change their minds on the spot, but my modest goal in my conversation was that something would stick, just like a pebble in her shoe.

We need to reach kids everywhere, especially kids who claim to follow Christ, before they are convinced by the culture and their peers that even if abortion is “killing a kid,” the law should let people make their own choices about it.

My conversation with Miriam confirmed for me that our culture is talking to our kids about abortion. The question is, are we? Are our Christian youth being told the reasons that the unborn should have a right to life? Are they being told how to respond to the pro-choice arguments that their friends are making?

“... our culture is talking to our kids about abortion. The question is, are we? ”

That’s exactly what Justice For All’s mission encompasses. We train Christians to defend their pro-life convictions winsomely in a culture that is hostile to it. We help them understand how this is one issue where the comfortable position of being only personally pro-life is not enough. We teach them that injustice against some of the most vulnerable members of our society is not something about which we can be indifferent. And finally, we train their parents to have these conversations with their kids, so their children develop the critical thinking to help them hold strong even when the culture pushes back.

Where will parents and kids learn this? They are most likely to learn it through their church or a program at their Christian school. The pro-choice culture does not need to communicate its message to our kids — the media and their peers will do the job for them. But as Miriam proves, we don’t have the luxury of inaction. And I am so happy that God allows me to reach so many Christian parents and kids every year through Justice For All’s work.

It’s up to churches, Christian schools, and parents not to hope that our underlying beliefs magically transfer to our kids. Rather we have to spend time focused on the topic. We need to craft a whole-person response that includes the heart and the mind. That is precisely what Justice For All trains leaders to do.

Spending Spring Break with JFA

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Angelique (second from left), the pro-life club president at Trinity University, engages students at UT Dallas in conversation during her spring break with JFA.

In February, our team held outreach events at two schools in San Antonio in one trip. For the Trinity University event, we were invited by the president of the Tigers for Life, Angelique. As for UTSA, we had been working with their pro-life club’s outreach chair for years before finally getting to do outreach on campus this spring. We also did training seminar events with both of them last fall.

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Our spring break team at UT Dallas

After our successful outreach events with them in San Antonio, we asked both of them if they wanted to join us two weeks later at the University of Texas at Dallas (UT Dallas) since our events there took place during their spring break. They each decided to abandon their spring break plans to come to Dallas with us.

There they joined Mariana and Thomas, from Benedictine College, who also spent their spring break with us. We all had three amazing days of outreach at UT Dallas. The day that trip ended, the quarantine and stay-at-home orders started to be issued, so we finished the trip with God’s perfect timing. Judging from the response we got from these student leaders, they really were glad that they spent their spring break not on a beach vacation, but at outreach with Justice For All changing their peers’ minds about abortion, one person at a time.

“I am so grateful I went on a mission trip with Justice For All over spring break! It was a time of growth, intentional dialogue, and deepening of faith . . . I learned a lot of interesting viewpoints, and I was deeply moved by some of the heartbreaking reasons why people are pro-choice . . . It was truly amazing to see a variety of different people’s strengths and talents come together and impact students on campus. Abortion is not something to be ignored, no matter how hard the conversation is. I can bet the students at UT Dallas will be talking about the JFA exhibit for years to come, leading to a domino effect of conversations. Overall, I feel strengthened in my own faith through this mission, especially in learning how to do my part in a mission and surrendering the rest to God.”

— Mariana (Freshman, Benedictine College)

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Mariana in action at UT Dallas

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Thomas (green shirt) having conversations with pro-choice protestors

“I was amazed at how many conversations really changed people’s views on the issue of abortion—rarely a 180 degree turnaround, but more often than that, I found even sharing the perspective we were coming from helped open people’s minds more on the subject. I was especially impacted by seeing how each day the protestors became less hostile in their attitude and more open to dialogue.”

— Thomas (Sophomore, Benedictine College)

The Power of Common Ground

By Jeremy Gorr, JFA Trainng Specialist

August/September 2019

One of the most important things we teach people is to find common ground when possible—and it is almost always possible! A great example of the power of finding common ground was a conversation I had with Taylor at the University of North Texas.

Taylor was writing on our free speech board (shown in picture). From what he wrote, it may be hard to imagine that I would have had much common ground with him. It seemed like we had totally different worldviews.

It turned out, however, that finding common ground with him was easy! Our conversation started like this:

Jeremy: Do you think there should be any restrictions on abortion at all?

Taylor: I don’t think it should be used as a form of birth control, but that’s about it.

Jeremy: I don’t think that abortion should be used as a form of birth control either. I agree with you about that! Why do you think abortion should be available for other reasons?

Taylor: If the child is not going to have the quality of life he or she should, it should be up to the parent to figure out what’s best for the child.

Jeremy: I agree that it’s tragic when children don’t have a high quality of life. I also agree that parents generally should have freedom regarding how to raise their children.

Notice how I first found something I could agree with after each statement he made. But also notice that I did not agree with everything he said. Even though I agreed with many of his sentiments, I made sure never to agree with him that abortion should be allowed in the circumstances he raised.

We call this finding “common ground without compromise.” We can find much to agree with and never compromise our position to do so. Finding common ground early in the conversation really opened the door to a thoughtful conversation with Taylor. If I had not shown him that we had so much common ground, he might have assumed I was a “Nazi” (see picture above) and not had much to say to me, much less have wanted to listen to me. Using common ground, I was able to establish that I was an empathetic, caring person just like he was.

It was truly amazing to see how these initial points of common ground opened the door to his coming around to agreeing with me on more substantial matters:

Jeremy: Imagine if there were a two-year-old child that had many of the same problems that you believe create a need for abortion, such as a low quality of life. Could we kill the two-year-old?

Taylor: No. Ideally he could be adopted or something, but you can’t kill him. By that time he’s a human being.

Jeremy: I agree. And if the unborn is also already a human, like that two-year-old, can you see how it would be equally wrong to kill her?

Taylor: I understand your argument that she’s a human and it’s not right to kill her. However, I think if you think about what’s best for her life, it would be better if she didn’t exist at all.

Jeremy: I can understand how you feel it might be better if some children didn’t exist at all. However, the question with abortion is very different. Abortion doesn’t prevent a child from coming into existence; it kills a child that already exists.

Taylor: I agree with that. That makes it much more complicated.

Taylor and I had a 20-minute conversation about the humanity of the unborn, human rights, and the immorality of abortion. He agreed with most of my arguments. As we talked it became clear that he was the type of person who would not change his mind on the spot, but definitely will reflect on the new information he learned. There may be many people that you feel have extremely different worldviews and with whom it is difficult to connect. Common ground “without compromise”* is the key to building a genuine connection and reasoning together on the issue of abortion.

* The book Common Ground Without Compromise, written by JFA Executive Director Steve Wagner, is available for free at www.commongroundbook.com.

Growing Up with Justice For All

One of the most critical parts of our work is training Christians to have conversations about abortion so that they can change people’s hearts and minds. It is always great to see this process working in the real world. I saw it recently at a seminar I gave in Phoenix when one of the participants, Rylei, told me her story.

This is Rylei after a conversation at her first outreach event at Colorado State University in 2017.

We initially trained Rylei as a junior in high school at Faith Christian Academy in 2017. Often when we train Christian students, they tell us that they don’t know who to talk to because all of their friends are pro-life. One of her high school classmates commented, “Because of our culture, I rarely even considered abortion and its morality. This [experience with JFA] really helped show what it is and the impact it really has in America.”

The value of our training, however, lasts throughout these students’ lives. In Rylei’s case, she is now a student at Arizona State University with two pro-choice roommates.

I asked her how her JFA training helped her talk to her pro-choice friends about abortion.

Most of my pro-choice friends haven’t thought through their position very much. I was writing a paper for my class on the pro-life position, using the same arguments you guys gave me. While writing the paper, one of my roommates saw me watching a video of a pro-life person having a conversation with a pro-choice person, and said, “Wow, he is really destroying her pro-choice arguments.” So she’s hearing the arguments as I’m researching my paper. So I find ways to naturally bring up the topic of abortion with them.

Rylei also has a passion for doing outreach at her campus. That passion was born from the outreach she did with us in high school. I am always thinking of how difficult it must be for a high school student like Rylei, who was 16 her first time doing outreach, to engage college students on a difficult topic like abortion.

Rylei’s first exposure to Justice For All was during our seminar at her high school in 2017. Here JFA trainer CK Wisner (center, curly hair) leads her mentor group in interactive exercises and discussion as Rylei (facing CK) listens.

That is what makes outreach such an important part of our training program. Once someone overcomes the initial fear of talking about abortion, this newfound confidence can even last a lifetime. One of her classmates at that first outreach experience said, “Outreach taught me that getting uncomfortable is a really good thing. When God is with you, you don’t have to fear.”

I asked Rylei about her outreach experiences during high school.

I love it. Every time. It is so rewarding, honestly. I know the first time I was super nervous, [and] I got thrown right into a conversation. But after you get through the first conversation I feel like it gets a lot easier.

During her senior year in high school in 2018, Rylei joined us for outreach again, this time at Metro State University in Denver.

Rylei is a living example of our training program in action. Rylei left high school with good arguments for the pro-life position, good skills for conversations about them, and courage to actually have conversations about abortion with those who disagree with her position. She was totally equipped for dealing with her pro-choice roommates and reaching her largely pro-choice campus.

Because of your support of Justice For All, we were able to be there to help Rylei each step of the way. She attended a JFA seminar and then an outreach event at CSU in 2017. She participated again in 2018 at Metro State University. And just last week because of a JFA seminar event, we had the privilege of encouraging her to become active at Arizona State University, where she is now a student. Thank you for partnering with us as we serve students like Rylei, so that they can become effective advocates of their pro-life position to their future pro-choice friends—many of whom will face an unplanned pregnancy in their future.

"My Mom Wanted to Abort Me."

Featured Resource for October 2018
By Jeremy Gorr, JFA Training Specialist

Sometimes it’s not a logical argument that makes people open their minds about abortion, but a story. In the case of Amin, a student I met this fall at Kennesaw State University, that story came from the person standing right next to him.

When we started talking, Amin was quite rude. He kept interrupting me. When some others joined the conversation, he started interrupting them. In fact, when someone asked him to stop interrupting, Amin cursed at him, and I thought he was close to starting a fist fight. Amin wouldn’t listen to what anybody had to say.

Still, I was trying to connect with him, explaining why our conversation was so important.

Grace (left) and Jeremy (right) interact with students near our poll table at Kennesaw State University (KSU).

Jeremy: The reason we should both be listening to each other is that over 925,000 lives are lost to abortion each year in this country, and I think if we listened we could find a way to save those lives.

Amin: Would we actually be able to save those lives, though? How many of those children would make it to age 25 with the kind of upbringing they will probably get? If a mother wants to have an abortion, and she can’t get one, how do you think that kid will be raised?

Jeremy: I don’t think we can say for sure what kind of life that child will have.

Amin: But probably it will be bad. If my mom didn’t want to have me, and then she did, I don’t think that I would be her top priority.

At that moment, standing right next to him, a woman named Ima decided that she had to respond.

Ima: I don’t think it is a fair assumption that those kids are going to have horrible lives.

Amin: I’m saying if the mother wanted to have an abortion, they are pretty much guaranteed to have horrible lives.

Ima: My mom wanted to abort me, but instead she put me up for adoption. And I have had a successful life. I don’t think it’s fair to assume that the children we’re talking about will have horrible lives. They can be put into loving environments like I was.

Amin: But you got adopted. There are tons of children who don’t.

Frequently, group conversations spontaneously formed during our three days of outreach at KSU.

Ima: But there are also tons of parents that want to adopt children. I think we can find a way to help more people adopt them. I just don’t think you’re considering both sides and considering adoption as an option.

Amin: You make a good point. I don’t think we should go straight to abortion as the only option.

After Ima shared her story, Amin finally started listening. Ima, Amin, and I then discussed many of the arguments against abortion. By the end of the conversation, Amin admitted to me that he had gained a whole new perspective on the issue.

Amin: I’m glad we had this conversation. You do bring up many good points. Because I started listening I was able to hear you. It is a human life, and I have to put that perspective in my head. Ima, your story was great, and you allowed me to see other sides of the story when it comes to abortion.

Jeremy: Thank you for having an open mind.

Amin: This is good. We all got to talk. We all got to share our opinions. I apologize for snapping at you and interrupting initially. When you started talking you seemed passionate, and you seemed informed. I’m glad I started listening. I’m honestly not very well-informed on this topic.

Amin realized that while he was eager to dispute all of my arguments, he could not dispute Ima’s life. She was proof that he was wrong to assume all children in situations of unwanted pregnancy would have horrible lives. That realization caused him to start listening to my arguments and reconsider his overall perspective on abortion. That’s one of the things I like most about Justice For All’s outreach events: they create a space for people like Amin to meet people like Ima, a space where they can discuss their views on abortion together. Many times that’s all it takes to change hearts and minds.

Confidence Creates Conversations

Impact Report: March 2016

Note: Chris Haynes, one of the pastors at Trinity Baptist Church in Norman, Oklahoma, said this about JFA: "I know of no other group that does such an outstanding job of training and then guiding teams of people through the actual process of dialogue.  If you have one day and JFA training [team] comes close to you, don’t miss the opportunity.  Our church and specifically college students have been equipped to now be on campus and have meaningful, life changing conversations."  This Impact Report explains through the story of Andrew some of what motivated Chris to say these encouraging words.  We hope you hear through Andrew's story our heart for established Christian communities.  For example, we are eager to serve local churches as they carry out their God-given role of helping the disciples in their flock to grow in their ability to actively love those too often forgotten in relation to pregnancy and abortion - women and men in distress, the smallest humans on earth, and those who disagree with us.  We see ourselves as helping these established Christian communities fill a gap in their discipleship in this area, rather than doing the work of mentoring and discipleship totally apart from or in place of these communities.  - Steve Wagner, Executive Director

Before the JFA conference, I was hesitant to raise the topic of abortion with my peers.  — Andrew (right)

Like so many of us, Andrew did not often have conversations about abortion.  He was pro-life, but he lacked confidence.  Then he participated in the Justice For All (JFA) training program last fall.  His college pastor, Chris Haynes, and their church, Trinity Baptist Church in Norman, Oklahoma, have a very purposeful emphasis on “the equipping of the saints for the work of service” (Eph. 4:12), so this was one of many times that they have invited JFA to help train their students.  Later, Andrew said,

Before the JFA conference, I was hesitant to raise the topic of abortion with my peers.  While this was due mainly to my lack of knowledge about abortion, I also felt uncomfortable raising the subject due to my lack of experience in conversing about the topic with someone from another worldview.

Through these interactions, I learned not to categorize someone too quickly… you really don't know where someone stands on an issue until you ask specific questions.  — Andrew (left)

I’ve heard these same hesitations often.  Many people say that there is no way the average person is capable of engaging in productive dialogue with pro-choice advocates.  Andrew’s JFA experience proved the opposite.  JFA training helped Andrew develop (1) confidence in his own pro-life convictions, (2) confidence to begin creating dialogue, and (3) confidence to create further conversations in his daily life.

The first dose of confidence came for Andrew during the interactive seminar (Seat Work) portion of the training program.  In a mentor group led by Rebecca Haschke and me, Andrew and other students said they felt apprehensive about coming to our outreach event at the University of Oklahoma (OU) the following week.  As these students learned why common pro-choice arguments fail and practiced sharing the evidence which supports the pro-life position, however, their confidence grew.  Andrew reflected,

JFA not only has given me the tools I need to reach out to my peers, but also has helped me firm up my position on abortion as well as my reasoning behind my stance.

Even with this confidence, though, Andrew wondered if he personally could take these ideas and produce a good conversation with them.  Here’s how our outreach event at OU (Feet Work) enabled him to do just that.  At the beginning of the outreach event, Andrew got a second dose of confidence as he listened in to conversations that JFA staff members were having with pro-choice students.  The next day, he took the critical step of starting not just one, but many conversations.  He was surprised by what he learned:

During the time I spent in outreach with JFA, I had several opportunities to dialogue with other college students about their beliefs about abortion.  Through these interactions, I learned not to categorize someone too quickly.  To my surprise, many people who initially stated that they supported abortion were less supportive after receiving information.  Most of the people I spoke to were not the die-hard leftists I had thought they would be.  On the other hand, several people who thought abortion should be illegal turned out to support early abortions!  Through outreach with JFA, I discovered that you really don’t know where someone stands on an issue until you ask specific questions.

Andrew gained an understanding of pro-choice advocates and of himself through outreach that he could not have gained otherwise.  That’s why JFA has found Seat Work and Feet Work to be such a powerful combination.  Seat Work provides the tools for creating good conversations, but Feet Work gives a real-life opportunity to practice using those tools, to get rid of false caricatures of the people we’re trying to reach, and to explore ways to grow in dialogue skills.    

Andrew found that creating conversations during Feet Work gave him a third dose of confidence so that it was natural for him to continue creating dialogue about abortion after the JFA events (Repeat Work):

The [seminar] and outreach JFA allowed me to take part in have prepared me for several discussions since their visit to campus.  In dialogues with fellow students, finding common ground has been very important as have techniques such as “trotting out the toddler.”  I am thankful for the opportunity I had to volunteer with JFA and to develop my convictions and my ability to share them.

“The [seminar] and outreach JFA allowed me to take part in have prepared me for several discussions since their visit to campus.”

— Andrew

Andrew initially had the same hesitance to have conversations that most people have.  His biggest hurdle was his first conversation.  Once that hurdle was past, creating more conversations did not seem so daunting.  Andrew’s story demonstrates that gaining knowledge at a JFA seminar and taking a first dialogue step at a JFA outreach event can produce bold action on behalf of the unborn.

Are you someone who wants to be prepared for these kinds of conversations, but you’re hesitant like Andrew was?  Do you know someone in the same boat?  You can gain confidence like Andrew did by participating in JFA’s training program, including a Feet Work event.  You can find upcoming opportunities on the JFA Event Calendar.  Or, inquire about JFA Mission Trip opportunities.

We thank God that he used Justice For All, in partnership with Andrew’s very supportive college pastor and church, to help Andrew gain the confidence to be able to regularly and graciously share his views about abortion with his peers.  Thank you for supporting the mission of JFA so that we can offer Seat Work and Feet Work experiences to others who simply lack the confidence to start the conversation.  Through thousands of bold advocates like Andrew, we can truly make abortion unthinkable for millions – one conversation at a time.

- Jeremy Gorr, for the JFA Team