A Conversation with a Planned Parenthood Volunteer

Impact Report, May 2021

Note: Sometimes it’s a blessing in disguise to be in the dark. In this Impact Report, JFA trainer Mary St. Hilaire describes an unforgettable conversation with “Ashley” that highlights a valuable lesson for all of us: Give the benefit of the doubt. Because Ashley wasn’t forthcoming with her views, Mary was allowed to simply enjoy Ashley’s company as they talked. It appears this helped Ashley consider Mary’s pro-life beliefs with a more open mind. - Steve Wagner, Executive Director

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Mary (sitting) interacts with a student at University of Oklahoma at a JFA outreach event in March 2021.

I walked up to “Ashley” while she was studying a cluttered free speech board at a Justice For All (JFA) event. I asked her if she had thoughts about abortion, and behind a grin, she replied that she did but that she was “just looking.” She expressed how interesting it was to read the array of comments from people on both sides of the issue. I agreed and began reading them with her. After a minute or so, she turned to me and asked what my thoughts were. As I began to share my pro-life perspective with Ashley, I wondered what she was thinking, what her position was, and what kind of person she might be. My first impression was that she certainly seemed to be a genuinely kind and joyful person. She had a captivating smile and laugh which put me at ease. I felt comfortable sharing my beliefs even though I was ignorant of hers. I figured that she couldn’t be extremely pro-choice or she would have had a lot more to say to me.

After briefly sharing my thoughts, she began asking me more about myself, my job, and how I became involved with JFA. I told her I was working with JFA full-time and that I loved it.

Ashley: [with a huge smile] That makes me so happy! I’m so glad you have found something you love. I’m curious: Are your pro-life beliefs a result of your faith?

Mary: Yes and no! I was raised Catholic, and the Catholic Church teaches that human life is sacred and valuable from the moment of conception until natural death. But, as an adult I have also looked at the science and the non-religious arguments as to why the unborn are human and deserving of the right to life. So, yeah, my faith has definitely influenced my pro-life beliefs, but I can also base those beliefs on science.

Ashley: That makes total sense!

It was at this point that she finally began to open up about her own opinion of abortion. I was truly enjoying Ashley’s company and conversation, so I was excited to hear her thoughts.

Ashley: In the past several years I kind of took a step back from my faith, but I was raised Christian, so I can totally understand where you’re coming from. I like coming to these types of events because I really want to educate myself on both sides of different political and moral issues and I don’t know that I’ve made up my mind on the issue of abortion yet.

Thoroughly impressed by Ashley’s maturity and honesty, I wanted to find out more.

Mary: I think it’s great that you are really searching for the truth! Can I ask...do you think the unborn is biologically human?

Ashley didn’t know anything about the biology of the unborn and was open to hearing my thoughts. After I quickly shared some scientific evidence, she agreed the unborn is biologically human. I then shifted the conversation to the topic of equal rights outside of the womb.

Mary: Let’s take a break from the unborn for a second. Ashley, what do you think gives you and me and everyone here on campus equal value? I think we can both agree that we should be treated equally, despite all our differences. So it makes sense to say there must be something we all share that grounds our equality, right?

Ashley: Absolutely! We’re all human. So I guess it’s a question of, “Is the unborn the same kind of human as you and I?” and if so, then abortion would be killing an innocent human being.

Mary: I think you’re right.

I was surprised at how easily Ashley understood my train of thought. Then suddenly, almost out of nowhere and to my utter shock, Ashley nonchalantly told me more of her story.

Ashley: I volunteer at Planned Parenthood because I really care about women and I want to help give them more accessible birth control, so I table with them on campus. I know they provide abortion services, which I don’t really like, but I think it’s a pretty small percentage of what they do...what do you think about Planned Parenthood?

As shocked as I was by this new discovery, I tried to gently and graciously share the truth about Planned Parenthood with Ashley.

Mary: I think it’s awesome that you are going out of your way to help women! As far as Planned Parenthood goes, I know they do other things than abortion, but I think you’d be surprised at how much of their business is actually abortion. Whatever the case may be about that, it really does come down to that question, “Is the unborn a valuable human being with the right to life?” because if so, it doesn’t matter whether or not abortion is their number one money-maker or just something they’re doing on the side. It’s that they are doing it at all that matters. We wouldn’t support an animal shelter that provides services for animals, but also abuses some of their animals on the side, would we?

Ashley: [nodding] Yeah, for sure. I get what you’re saying. I guess I’m just still trying to decide what I believe about the unborn.

Mary: That’s totally understandable.

It was at this point that a pro-life student who had been listening in on our conversation interjected, asking if Ashley had heard of the movie Unplanned, the story of former Planned Parenthood clinic director Abby Johnson and her conversion. He explained the storyline and encouraged her to watch it. I almost couldn’t believe my ears when Ashley replied that she had heard of it and sincerely promised that she would “definitely look into it.” As our conversation drew to a close, Ashley turned to me and said, “You’ve really given me a lot to think about!” I expressed how much I had enjoyed talking with her.

“I would have believed her to be the exact opposite of the person she really was.”

As I walked away from this conversation, I had to pause and take a moment to process what had just happened. Ashley is by far the kindest person I have ever encountered on campus and perhaps one of the kindest people I’ve ever met. She was genuinely interested in my life and my beliefs; she shared in the joy of my success with JFA despite disagreement on the issue of abortion; she was caring and compassionate towards women and children; she was gracious and respectful to me and other pro-life volunteers she encountered; and yet, she was also a Planned Parenthood volunteer. If I had met Ashley last year, before going through JFA training, and she had started our conversation by saying she volunteered for Planned Parenthood, I would have made a million assumptions about what she believed and who she was. I would have presumed her to be radically pro-abortion, close-minded, and hostile. I would have believed her to be the exact opposite of the person she really was.

As pro-life advocates who are passionate about defending the sacredness of human life and ending the injustice of abortion, it’s easy for us to assume the worst about people who disagree with us. We forget the fact that most pro-choice people, especially many who work in the abortion industry, care about women and children. We must remind ourselves that there are kind people with good intentions on both sides of the issue, but we will only ever discover this and make an impact in their lives if we take the time to get to know them, not with presumption or hatred but with graciousness and love. I am so thankful that this encounter with Ashley helped me to see this more clearly.

- Mary St. Hilaire, for the JFA Team

Contact Mary: Web - Instagram - Facebook

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A Note from JFA Executive Director, Steve Wagner:

In my April letter, I described a core value of JFA’s internship program: our interns don’t make coffee. Instead, they learn the art of using dialogue to change hearts and minds about abortion. Then they learn the art of training others to do the same. Along the way, we rely on God to give these young people courage to do amazing things they never thought possible. Rebekah Dyer illustrated this by sharing how God is using a personal weakness to teach her to trust his strength.

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Mary St. Hilaire interacts with a University of New Mexico student during her internship in February 2020.

Not only are our interns-turned-trainers learning skills to train large and small groups, as Rebekah described. They also glean new insights from regular outreach conversations, allowing them to place their unique stamp on our training program.

Recent Instagram Post: In this classic photo, JFA intern Trent Horn engages in an animated examination of a textbook with a student while Jon Wagner and I look on. Trent and I recently discussed memories of his early days with JFA on his podcast, The Counsel of Trent. Now a staff apologist with Catholic Answers, Trent models for thousands the art of changing minds about abortion through radio, writing, and speaking. Click the photo to share via Instagram! - Steve Wagner

Mary St. Hilaire, a JFA trainer who began her work as an intern in 2020, provides a good example of this in JFA’s May Impact Report (above). Through this conversation, Mary gained perspective she can now share with each person she trains.

We are excited to report that we’re currently working to fill three internship slots for fall 2021. Each intern will learn the same skills Mary and Rebekah have been mastering beautifully. Do you want to support our incoming interns? Here are two ways you can help: (1) Continue supporting any JFA trainer’s work; each trainer pours into the lives of our interns. (2) Designate a gift for the Intern Scholarship Fund, which allows interns to “test the waters” of working for JFA without first having to assemble a long-term support team. Thank you for your support!

A New View of Abortion... And Pro-Life Advocates

Impact Report, April 2020

A Note from JFA’s Executive Director: Mary St. Hilaire had been an intern with JFA for less than a week when we sent her to four different cities from February 7 until March 12. She helped JFA accomplish eleven days of outreach at five universities and also learned to present a portion of JFA’s training seminar. Since COVID-19 has caused us to postpone in-person events for now, we’re thankful for Mary’s help in doing more with social media, including starting conversations with people online. - Steve Wagner, JFA Executive Director

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In the first outreach conversation of her internship, Mary (above, right) interacts with a University of North Texas student who skipped his class to talk about abortion.

One of my favorite conversations this semester was with a girl I’ll call “Liz,” a student at Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas. From the beginning I could tell that Liz was very hesitant to engage us in any way. When I asked if she wanted to weigh in on our poll (“Is Abortion an Injustice?”), she seemed almost nervous to do so, but eventually got up the courage and signed the “No” side. I then asked if she had time to share her thoughts with me, to which she timidly replied, “Yeah... I do have time actually.”

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At University of Texas at Dallas in March, Mary talked with the group of students pictured here. As we traveled home from Dallas, we began to see cancellations of public gatherings nationwide.

I followed up by asking her what she thought about abortion. Right off the bat, I recognized the love and compassion that Liz has for women, for she responded, “Well, I don’t really like abortion, but I understand that it’s necessary for some women if they are raped or if they’re too poor to take care of a child.”

This was the perfect opportunity, early in the conversation, to set Liz at ease and help her know that I cared about her view and about these circumstances. I responded by saying, “I agree that rape is a terrible experience for any woman to have and I can’t imagine going through that. And poverty is something I’ve never had to experience, but my heart really goes out to anyone living in poverty, especially single mothers. Both of those situations are really sad to think about.”

Almost immediately after saying this, there was a change in Liz’s disposition. I saw a transformation in her face and could tell that my response was not at all what she was expecting to hear. In fact, not only did she become more willing to discuss the topic of abortion with me, but she also began to open up about very personal struggles in her own life. She said that both she and her boyfriend have problems with their mental health. They plan on getting married, and they would love to have children, but they feel trapped because they don’t want their kids to have the same mental challenges they have.

I could tell how distressing this was to Liz, and I was able to really empathize with her. “Wow,” I said. “That is such a difficult situation. I want to have children someday, too, so I can understand how hard this must be for you because obviously we want the best for our children and would never want them to experience the same hardships we have experienced. I’m sorry you have to go through this. Is your family supportive of you and your boyfriend?” “Yes, luckily they are very supportive and loving,” she answered. “I’m so glad to hear that,” I replied. “It’s so important to have people in your life that you can lean on to help you through the hard times.”

The way that Liz opened up to me and the way in which I was able to empathize with her created a strong connection between us. In fact, most of our conversation was spent just getting to know one another. We talked about our shared Christian faith, joked and laughed over stories from our past, and talked about our families and backgrounds. We didn’t actually discuss the topic of abortion in depth until a friendship had begun to develop. Because of our connection, when I did ask her about abortion again, she was very open and willing to discuss it with me.

“So, do you think the unborn is biologically human?” I asked. “I’m not sure,” she replied. “That’s okay!” I said. “Would you be open to hearing what I think?”

“Absolutely!” she eagerly responded. I then walked her through evidence that the unborn is biologically human. For example, the unborn exhibits the three characteristics of living things, it has human parents and human DNA, and it is a whole organism that is developing itself. Liz said that those reasons made sense, and she was willing to agree that the unborn is biologically human.

I then tried to help her see why all human beings deserve the right to life by asking her a few questions: “Look around at everyone on campus. We’re all different, right? Different religions, races, ages, and genders. But could you agree that everyone on campus deserves to be treated equally at least in the sense of the basic right to life?” She nodded. “Of course.”

I continued, “So then there must be something the same about us that gives us the right to demand this equal treatment. What do you think is the same about us?” Liz paused and thought for a moment. “That’s a good question. I don’t know. What do you think?” she finally asked.

“Well, I think it’s simply that we are all human beings!” I could see that this answer really resonated with Liz. “Yes, that makes sense,” she quickly replied. I continued: “So if the unborn is also human then shouldn’t he also deserve the right to life?”

The look on Liz’s face told me that she completely understood this argument and was really grappling with it. After a moment, she answered, “I guess abortion is an injustice. But I do understand why some women need to get abortions.” This response impressed me because of Liz’s willingness to admit that she had changed her view of abortion as not being an injustice. I wasn’t at all surprised that she held onto the belief that it is still necessary for some women, despite it being wrong. I know that she was simply trying to process through everything we had discussed. A total change of heart may come later when she has had more time to dwell on this complex topic.

With all that being said, my conversation with Liz is one of my favorites not because of her altered view of abortion but because of what she said in parting after we had talked for about an hour. She looked at me earnestly and said, “Thank you! You have changed my perspective of pro-lifers and the pro-life movement.” Those are the most precious words I have heard in any of my conversations.

One of our main goals as staff at Justice For All, and as pro-life advocates in general, is to have dialogues that convey Christ’s message of love, forgiveness, and understanding. Liz’s parting words confirmed that I had fulfilled that message in our conversation. Whether or not she completely changes her mind on the issue of abortion, I know that I had a great impact on her because she has a new view of pro-life advocates as people of acceptance, love, and openness. This, in and of itself, opens so many doors for more productive conversations in the future. She will now be much more willing to listen to and understand the pro-life position without the interference of a negative association with pro-life people.

So often, pro-choice people don’t want to engage us simply because they think we don’t care about their views. Let us change that stigma by our examples of Christ-like love, unconditional and immeasurable, in every interaction we have with people with whom we disagree. Let us truly live out Jesus’ command to us: “Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” (John 13:34)