Two Buckets - Take Two

What a privilege it was to be back on the Wichita State University (WSU) campus on August 30 and 31 with the JFA team! I was excited to once again dialogue with college students face to face after a 17-month wait. I was ready to meet the challenge of helping them think through their views on abortion, and I prayed to see hearts and minds changed.

I introduced my Two Buckets analogy in 2017. It continues to be a very useful approach with pro-choice students that say, “I’m personally opposed to abortion, but I can’t tell others what to do.” I’m thrilled to share the impact that this analogy had on a WSU student named James.

James didn’t identify as pro-life or pro-choice. He said, “I’m in the middle.” I asked several questions to help him think through his views. I discovered that he believed that we become human at fertilization and that the unborn are human like us. He also agreed that the unborn deserved to be treated equally to born people and should be protected.

I then asked, “If you were to vote tomorrow on whether or not to keep abortion legal, how would you vote?” He thought long and hard and said, “I can still see both sides of the issue. I believe strongly in freedom of choice. I just don’t think I can take someone else’s rights away.” I shared my Two Buckets story to help him dig deeper into his thinking.

Tammy: Imagine that I have two buckets. The first bucket contains choices like murder, rape, stealing, and molestation. Do you agree that these choices are wrong and should not be legal?

James: Yes.

Tammy: The second bucket contains personal choices—for example, a favorite food like strawberries, choosing to go to college or not, dying your hair blue, etc. Do you agree that everyone should have the freedom to make these personal choices that do not harm others?

James: Yes.

Tammy: The significant difference between each of the two buckets is that one contains choices that harm people and the other bucket contains choices that do not harm people.

James: That makes a lot of sense. Many people think pro-life people want to take rights away, but I can see now that you’re actually wanting to add rights to people— to let them have plenty of rights as long as it doesn’t harm another human being...

I smiled and nodded in agreement.

James: What about rape? That’s a really tough situation.

Tammy: I agree.

I spent some time empathizing with women who’ve been raped and stated that we should punish rapists more fully. He agreed, and I continued:

Tammy: There are most likely students walking on this campus that were conceived from rape. Do you think they are any less valuable than those students who were not conceived in rape?

James. No.

I could see that this was a lightbulb moment for him.

Tammy: So, in which bucket does abortion belong?

James: [after a short pause] Abortion belongs in the bucket with murder.

I again nodded in agreement. We smiled at each other. Then I returned to my earlier question:

Tammy: If you were to vote tomorrow on whether or not to keep abortion legal, how would you vote?

James: I’d definitely vote no!

This was such a great moment. I paused to thank God for using me as an instrument to help James have a change of heart so significant that he is now willing even to vote to protect the unborn.

Thank you for your prayers! And thank you so much for your support that makes my work at Justice For All possible. May God bless you.

Note: Click here to read Tammy’s previous newsletter on this topic: “Two Buckets (Part 1).”

Interns in Action (Part 1)

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Introducing our intern class for the fall of 2021: Andrea, Rose, Kristina, and Bella.

Since mid-August when JFA’s fall 2021 internship began, interns Andrea, Rose, Kristina, and Bella have spent many hours conducting outreach events and creating conversations to help people change their minds about abortion. This month, Rose and Bella share a window into their experiences in their own words:

Rose: At Wichita State University in August, “Natasha” seemed to be captivated by our sandwich boards on display. I greeted her and asked if she had time to talk about her thoughts on abortion. She smiled and eagerly said, “Yes please, I don’t usually have conversations about this topic.” She mentioned that she was “on the fence” about abortion, but that her mother was pro-life. She proceeded to share and tell stories about her mother’s pregnancies and abortions… we moved to sit down in the shade on a nearby bench… [and] the conversation shifted when we were on the same level sitting down together side by side.

She shared with me that she was minoring in Women’s Studies. I took an interest in that and started asking her questions about… what she was learning. It then turned into a conversation focused on motherhood and the lies the world tells women about what motherhood should look like. She shared with me that many of her friends that have gotten abortions view the situation as “the most tragic and regretful decisions they have ever made.” She also said that after having abortions, most of her friends have become pro-life rather than remaining pro-choice. This statement provided a glimpse of hope for me that women’s hearts and minds can and will be transformed after they have reflected upon and faced healing after abortion.

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Rose (center in pink), Kristina (hat), and other JFA team members interact with Wichita State students at a JFA outreach event in late August.

She also mentioned some women in her life that have chosen to be mothers when all the odds seemed against them inspire her. We found common ground in viewing children as blessings rather than burdens, and that babies give women fuel and reasons to fulfill their dreams. At one point in the conversation, I mentioned the pro-life movie Unplanned. About five minutes later, her mother texted her a link to the movie. If that is not God communicating to me that I was talking to the right person at the right time, I don’t know what is. When we ended our conversation she said to me, “Thank you for taking the time to speak with me; you’ve solidified my pro-life views.” That was very rewarding to hear. I was very pleased that I could make a difference through a simple friendly conversation.

Bella: Before coming to JFA I thought I was loving the woman, but I really wasn’t. I would say I cared, but I didn’t understand how to care. I didn’t know how to open my eyes wide enough to take in the entire picture. I was scared that if I even for a moment glimpsed away from the unborn that I would somehow fail them. I didn’t know how to love the woman, have compassion for the person I was talking to, and still fight for the unborn. I realize now that I didn’t have compassion for the woman and the pro-choice advocate because I was still seeing the abortion issue as an Us v. Them, instead of an Us v. Injustice. Once my mindset shifted from seeing [pro-choice advocates] as the enemy, to seeing them as misinformed yet well-intentioned human beings hoping for justice and peace like me, the game changed. Now when I speak with someone who disagrees with me, I genuinely want to listen to them. Through this mindset I have had more fruitful (and surprisingly pleasant) conversations where a lot of progress has been made. I have learned that compassion is never wasted. It’s compassion that invokes us to listen and change…

Yesterday at outreach I was speaking to someone who didn’t have that strong of an opinion on abortion, but was pro-choice because he believed that women should be able to decide what to do with their lives. We walked through the biology and the Equal Rights argument, and he agreed with me all along the way. He then said something along the lines that the embryo just seems so far removed and hard to relate to, I agreed with him but [noted] that the way we look doesn’t define our value as humans. He agreed but then kind of shrugged and said, “That’s just the way society is; I don't know if I’d say it’s wrong—it’s socially acceptable…” I reminded him that at one point racism was socially acceptable and was the norm, but we now know that that was wrong despite the common opinion. He responded, “You are right, and I bet there were people that when they logically thought about it realized that it was wrong, and that’s why we are here today living in a nation that now understands racism is wrong. I guess we need to start educating people about abortion, helping people see what’s actually happening with abortion.” I was shocked that he had said that. I knew that his mind hadn’t completely changed, but he agreed that the divide here is a lack of familiarity and affection for the unborn. People are seeing the unborn as something they are not, so of course it is hard to see where we are coming from.

October 2021 Update: In Part 2, interns Kristina and Andrea share additional reflections.

Interns Kristina Massa (left), Rose Maddock (center), and Bella O’Neill (right) engage three students in conversation at Wichita State University.

Intern Andrea Thenhaus engages a student in conversation at Colorado Christian Universtiy.

Bella O’Neill in conversation at Tarleton State University, Stephenville, Texas

Krisitna Massa in conversation at Tarleton State University.

Rose Maddock engages two students in conversation at Wichita State University.

Rose Maddock (pink tank top) and Kristina Massa (hat) engage students in respectful conversations at Wichita State University in August.

An Abortion Conversation in a Jacuzzi?

“I was not planning on talking about abortion. It was Labor Day weekend, and I was at the house of my brother’s boss, “Jim.” I had been trying to set up a meeting with him for awhile to discuss the possibility of financially supporting my work with Justice For All. I knew he was more on the pro-choice side but also knew he was really open to speaking with me. I had prepared notes for this particular conversation, and I had been planning on reviewing them prior to discussing my work. I thought we would meet at a coffee shop at some point. This is the story about how my plan for preparation quickly went out the door and how God made something special out of it.”

I had the opportunity to work through abortion in the case of rape and also talk about the Equal Rights Argument. Click here to read how the whole conversation went.

SFLA Presentation: Links

I will give a presentation this evening about “How to Dialogue about Chemical Abortion” during an SFLA Webinar. (Register to attend here.)

Here are a few links to resources I mentioned in the presentation:

Create dialogue opportunities:

Get JFA Training:

Here are a few links to help you connect with JFA: